S01 E04: The Need for Social Infrastructure in Remote Working

It is said that humans need 21 days to turn any action into a habit. We have been working from home for the past few months — we must have incorporated the necessary skills needed to work remotely by now. Even so, almost all organizations still keep wondering whether work from home is going to become a permanent reality rather than a privilege like it was before.

In episode 4 of Culture Club, we host Mr. Nitin Nahata from Udaan. Nitin is the HR leader for Udaan, who Ketan(Head of People Functions, Rentomojo) defines as the "blue-eyed boy who is redefining the supply and distribution system in India." Nitin has over 15 years of experience working as an HR in multinational companies like Standard Chartered Bank, HSBC, Tata Global Beverages, and more.

This conversation between Nitin, Senthil, and Ketan is a discussion on the inevitable evolution of eCulture in professional lives across all sectors and industries. Nitin mentions that eCulture has already been playing an active role in our lives for the past few years. What COVID-19 did was to make it a necessity rather than an option.

One of the key takeaways of this discussion was Nitin's insightful observation on the importance of both physical and social infrastructure for productive remote work. Nitin pointed out that managers and other leaders must act as bridges between the organization and its employees. They must be better at articulation when working remotely while helping the organization establish a culture of trust instead of micromanaging.

Listen to the conversation between Nitin, Ketan, and Senthil in this episode to gain insights into the changing world of work and how to make the best of it.

Transcript

Senthil [00:00:32] Alright, so I'll cut to the chase now, you know CultureClub is a club curated by CultureMonkey. So here, every week we talk to HRs and CHROs from leading organizations in India to mainly ask some questions revolving around the theme of e-culture. So in the last episode, we had Rishav from Anmol Feeds as our guest and we had lots of interesting points brought up by him in the last episode. And today, we have Nitin from Udaan. Right. So we are so excited. And I think you can really get started. Thanks a lot for Nitin on joining in on a Saturday. And, you know, it shows your passion for this topic and of course lots of points are about to be discussed. I believe this is going to add a lot of values to our viewers for sure. So, over to you Ketan.

Ketan [00:01:37] Thank you, Senthil, and of whatever I know of Nitin, I think that's the only way you can catch hold of him because the kind of work that he manages and the kind of challenges that he's dealing with. I think even Saturdays at a time would be pretty less for it. I'm glad he's at home because last week I had a conversation with him. I think he shared his schedule. I was amazed with the kind of productivity somebody could manage at a personal level. So thank you Nitin for joining us. Thank you, Senthil for that introduction. And Nitin, one of the reasons I'm here is I do advise CultureMonkey. I've been a consumer of CultureMonkey for some time. And I fell in love with the product. Okay. And somehow something worked out. I realized that I could be a part of their journey. So I'm advising them.

Ketan [00:02:49] And one thing that we realized was how important it is to understand and listen to the leaders, who are right now leading from the front and going to shape the entire HR fraternity. Senthil it may look like we know each other for a long time. But we have known each other for the past 5 - 6 months, we had met at a conference in the past and there are few people that you could connect to. So Nitin was one of them for me. And we've been exchanging calls and messages on relevant subjects and that's how we got connected and for the audience, Nitin heads HR for the blue-eyed boy of the Indian economy and the Indian startup ecosystem called Udaan. If you guys don't know about Udaan, go and search about them, but they're actually redefining the entire distribution system and the supply system across India. Last but that I know, I think they had already crossed almost 25 to 30 K people already, some few months back. And they're spread across as many cities that are there in the Indian subcontinent. Of the magnitude that is very exciting, very challenging.

Something very interesting. I think this is something I wanted to possibly speak to Nitin about. So quite a lot of people talk about him being the head of HR at Udaan. But he just says he's the HR at Udaan. Nitin, what's the thinking behind that?  The world would die to be in your position. Right. But that's so humble of you to do that and just saying that "I'm just an HR at Udaan" is super cool.

Nitin [00:05:08] Thanks, Ketan. I think the feeling is mutual in terms of interacting with you over the last few months. Well, I must say that from a cultural standpoint, I think Udaan as an organization is about a bunch of people who are passionate about the problem they're trying to solve. And I think as an organization, we are driven by the value of the contributions people make and not about what they've done in the past. And I think that's something that is really the most exciting part of being Udaan. And I don't think anyone here talks about levels. We do not talk about resignation, citing it's about the contribution. And I think that goes right from the top to bottom part of the organization. And I think that's one thing that's important. So whenever you talk to anyone at Udaan we'll obviously find you're talking about people who are talking about building Udaan.

Nitin [00:06:05] And I think the purpose that has been set out is that you want to they will enact to change the way commerce happens in India. And I think that's the most exciting part of it. So I think, yes, you did happen to talk about working late. But I think that's also about the passion I think I had been in Udaan for approximately a year or so. And I think the energy that people bring to the table and to the organization is just mind-boggling. And I think it's absorbed. So even if you do not want I think you just feel like working more towards the larger group of the larger connect. And that's the most exciting thing about being in Udaan. So, yes, it's not only me but everybody else. I think you all contribute.

So we as a company don't believe in designations to an extent and we believe that contributions can come from anywhere, everywhere. And the fact is that what you end up doing is sometimes very effective, very critical, and sometimes not so critical. So every role is important. And I think that we should band with that rather than designation. But that's just a part of the view that we have been brought up and then in Indian culture the designations that have become very important, but not at the way we want to look at it.

Ketan [00:07:20] Wow. Thank you. I'm glad that the leaders of trade speaking and talking about that. plus one, you wouldn't be an important member to define that second thing living by it. Is this super important, too. Thank you so much. And the other purpose is really a good thing. Probably. That's the reason I think I connected it so well with you because I could see the passion and the fire. You've got to do. There's so much to do. There's so much meaning to what we're doing through. Thank you.

Nitin [00:08:00] And I think just to add. I actually also goes a long way in terms of by the leaders with whom you've worked. For example, I was lucky to have some of the finest leaders under whom I worked, I remember still my time with Standard Chartered and with Tata Global Beverages. Most importantly, because Tata has a certain perspective in mind when you talk about Tata as an organization. There's been a lot of gray hair and a lot of experience, wisdom and all that. But I guess the way I was, we worked that the way I was allowed to challenge the status quo right from the time and I was with the Standard Chartered, and with Tata Global Beverages, I think it really shapes your perspective. And I think that once you learn that how it is able to help you grow.

I think as a part of the gratitude toward those leaders and the words their fraternity, you need to play that out with the people. So that you would work as colleagues that I think for the reverse mentoring concept that there's so much happening that you really don't have an idea in terms of what are the latest things that are happening and all of these things you need to look to learn.

Nitin [00:09:11] So I think learning is always a two-way process. And one cannot say that just because we have more years of experience or because someone is reporting to you, you know, more than them. So I think today their time has changed in terms of looking at what we're learning. There are so many things I end up learning from my team. You know, for me, to be very honest. I've been a guy who uses always Outlook. And it has been a challenge for me, you know, and in terms of, OK, for me, every mail has to have an attachment which I can work. I work on Google Drive. It's something that is difficult for me. It's again, learning for me to work on new tools. And I think the last one year with Udaan, I think I've really learned a lot in terms of how we used Slack and G-mail as a way of communicating and obviously WhatsApp, which really becomes a lifeline.

Senthil [00:10:19] Glad that you said that, as an engineer lot of times, my work has been with the startups. So I was able to relate to the flat hierarchy and how designation doesn't even matter. I've got the DNA to be able to relate to, but the unique thing that you are talking about thousands of employees you know, you're still able to redeem that and the contribution first mindset. That's something that it really deserves great appreciation. That's what I think.

Ketan [00:10:53] Thanks. All right. Thanks, guys. That's why Nitin is the news. Glad. Thank you for sharing. This outlook and the G-mail thing has been troubling me also a lot. And I have again, for the last 50 days, I've been trying to coming back to G-mail. It's been very, very difficult. Senthil also asked me to join on the slack, I said "But what do I do on slack?" So he said it's a fun place to exchange conversations. Came in and then I went over, came in again. But I think that's a very good point. Then you said about learning and about evolving, learning from each other, and being nimble. I think that that's what I'm hearing from members that are super important. And I have also been fortunate to and extent of working with the best industry leaders.

And I think I'm also a large point of time have learned a lot from them. Given. In fact, when we talk Udaan I think I jumped straight to the question. This entire thing about culture is it's no better. It can speak about in the context of an organization that has been written and forged by somebody who's actually seen it with the biggest conglomerate in India. And also it has also been cited multiple times for the examples. So, it would be really interesting Nitin, these five questions. We have five questions. Thought out for you and a surprise one at the end. So you will have to wait for the end of the surprise questions to come.

Ketan [00:12:40] Now, this COVID has been extremely, extremely difficult, and challenging for every individual, every leader, every organization. Now, how have you seen the conversations of the CXOs change or evolve with the onset of COVID? I wouldn't say post-COVID, because it is going to be there for pretty some time. But how have you seen a change in the conversation of CXOs? In terms of how do we see culture and about engagement? What what's your point of view on that?

Nitin [00:13:17] So let's start with the fact that you know necessity is the mother of all inventions. And if I talk about it, I think for the last few years there's been it's a really exciting title that has been doing the rounds, chief digital officer. Many organizations have tried to hire people. And that and the purpose is they simple. How are you making organizations nimble, agile, and making sure that they're adopting digitization as their way of life? And the reality is that we have seen very far and few successes. OK. We are still trying to work out what is the actual crisis that has been that can be used to actually measure the effectiveness of a chief digital officer in an organization. Right. And then COVID happens and then you see even some of the slowest organizations in terms of adopting automation and digital solutions are now vying for the best of the tools that are available to make sure things happen remotely, you know! And that's the beauty of what constraints can make people do.

Survival of the fittest. We often talk about it. And I think that's what COVID has actually led to, you know, for all of us, because organizations are failing to be relevant and effective in case they're not adapting to the rules of the world. We all have spoken about. Gen X, Gen Y and all of the stuff, you know, in terms of how it is difficult for Gen Y to report into a Gen X, a baby boomer, what everybody thought about and the conversation had been there for the last few years in terms of contributions and been talking about gig workers and sector.

Nitin [00:14:57] Now, I think from a manager standpoint or culture standpoint few things really become very important. Work from home was a privilege. Right. That many a time organizations and same managers, but giving their team members and then saying that, look, I'm flexible. I am trying to give you the comfort of working from home. And all of a sudden become that, no, it's not a privilege. It's not an option. It's the way of work. It's the real deal. So I think there are two important factors that really play an important role. First is trust. It's a very important factor that your managers trust that my team members are working in the interests of the organization.

Like how do you create that culture of trust between the manager and the team members? And second is the fear of losing control. Right. That's an important element. I have my team sitting next to me. There is a particular requirement that is coming to me. I know that I can leverage. I can channelize them to get the work done in a particular way or a particular time. Now, these are two things, which is really whether you like it or not we don't have an option. Now I know. COVID situation is there right now. And it might be there for some time to come.

Nitin [00:16:19] But from a cultural standpoint, I feel that is this an opportunity that we can leverage to make it a sustainable reality for us? And what it would mean somewhat cultural standpoint. So I think that has been a time when managers worked with a thought process of power control affiliation. Right. Now comes the time of resilience. So using discretion, restraint, discretion in terms of how to deal with people. How many managers to be asked for people that they are able to get through to their deal in one single goal, what they expected. Just because I know that my team member is sitting here. And even if I'd ask him or her to make a presentation, she can do some work and will show and they'll be like -  "Okay. now you do like this. I want these things". This is not possible.

And these are a few of the learnings I really had when you're trying to make that available when every person moves to complete in-house with outsourcing model witnesses. So that was a cultural shift that we were looking at. And that was the exact thing I did when I was looking at Standard Chartered and when you were having a global project being done in terms of its Scope International, which was the captive backend for all the HR  processes across 55 countries, for Standard Charted.  It was your idea of a cultural mindset.

Nitin [00:17:51] You know, in terms of being able to really articulate your expectations and make sure that you get the desired outcome without being judging and being interfering too many times, you know. So I think from a leader of today's perspective, that really becomes an important element for all of us. You were talking about the fact that probably from your office and you're looking at your options because somewhere down the line, you've got to say someone has said that 21 days, if someone takes to make up a particular thing a habit, then you have been in for more than three months in a similar kind of scenario. You can gradually repurpose or realign in terms of the way you work. And the benefits are huge you know. You all know we have been to a city like Bangalore. I know we're traveling from one part of the city to another takes a lot of time. We imagine that much of the time is made available to an employee to do it effectively for some of the things that he has not been able to do. That time consumed in coming to the office, do you think you to get the best of the energy to move to be productive from the moment we entered office?

So how can we really look at this entire thought process and make it real, you know? Well, the reality is I think that's one important element. But to me, it also requires a lot of change. One is from the infrastructure and when I talk about infrastructure. It's not only about the physical infrastructure, but it's also about the sorts of social infrastructure, physical infrastructure would be in terms of availability of some office space. That is quite a stable net connection. But at the same time, the social infrastructure about your manager being supportive, you know, because one of the things that also happened, that when you're working from home somewhere down the line. Given this lack of it. Am I working? Am I being productive? Is my manager satisfied with my performance?

Nitin [00:20:04] So how do you really create that support and that some comfort that if you're not working in front of your manager doesn't mean that you're not working and spending some time on, on Facebook, Tiktok has come up. I think that really becomes an important element for the leaders to make sure know that they are creating that infrastructure and that support across it. So I think that's, according to me, the most important element for us to look at the ways of working. Obviously, they're a lot of opportunities from an organizational standpoint. The way we're talking about, again, is the important element. Victims at a peak. At times it is really prohibitive. Imagine that amount of money available for you to help. You know, employers do the work better from their home. You know, regards to timing they get to leave from an office standpoint and you should work, but also some of the personal stuff because they have been neglecting so far.

Nitin [00:21:15] Maybe spending time with the family. You know, I think this is something that I feel would become important in the post-CVOID scenario. How do we learn from this situation and make it a reality, making life easy for everyone?  Second would be in terms of pollution and traffic jams and more importantly, the quality of time that you end up giving for yourself and your family. Now, that's one way of looking at it, obviously. And you are also talking about local boards, which require you to be available because they might be customer-facing boards. Now, equity and perceive are two elements that you and I obviously cannot shy away. That was the biggest challenge. We each as an HR professionals end up facing.

Then you have to beat it. So there will be a set of roles which can work from home and there will be rules which will require you to be in the market and obviously being in the market at this point in time, which involves a certain element of risk. Right. And we all, as human beings, principle agents, whatever you want to call up, once compensated for that and you feel that you should be given your credit in terms of the consumer sector. I think these are the things which from going forward perspective, it will become some of the challenges or aspects, I think, organizations and leaders of all nations have to deal with and find answers for.

Ketan [00:23:18] Well, thank you. Quite a lot of points there, the ones that actually got my immediate attention and very fresh and new and thank you so much indeed for saying that. About the concept of social infrastructure a new rule that a manager has put me in enabling this? Because, yes, I think of it because it all supports people. I do understand the kinds of questions that people are having in mind. And I'm glad that the HR leaders have prepared for what you are thinking about that. That was really amazing. Yes, I think fundamentally it's about it's always been a world-class that shift from watching over the shoulders of anybody. You've seen it work, too. Now, having trust and I think I when I look back at that, I mean, a very interesting point that you made was managers have to become sharper in terms of putting across that expectation and not assume that the person is right, that they can walk. But I look back. I think I have also started doing that more, I think. But when I'm speaking with my team at the meeting, the meetings are sharper, crisper, and very defined objectives. And I have been hearing this amazing.

Ketan [00:24:27] But everybody said that was in most cases the practices of up because I think people have started thinking and it to an extent of value at this time. Thank you so much. These are a few that I could capture. Of course, there was a lot that you shared, but these were the ones that actually caught my attention. Thank you.

Senthil [00:24:49] To add one point here, I read that productivity has indeed increased. The men who were working hard in the past and were not getting many recognitions, those people have started getting good appreciations now. This is something that I learned from this situation.

Nitin [00:25:29]  I think it's a relevant point because the buzz is that it's more in terms of this time that is relevant for you. And I know most of this work happening on email and all that stuff. Yes. It really becomes yes. So some of these things are playing in terms of, you know, the underdogs in the workplace will never come to the forefront in terms of you know talking about what they've done. It's all about good actionable work and not actually what you're talking about, what you would have done. Yes, I think a very valid point Senthil!

Ketan [00:27:30] So let me tell you have already covered this specific question in the first part. You spoke about the functions that need to change. Now, if that is the most important shift in terms of how business online has been thinking about a group of people practices, what is that one silver lining with one of the biggest change that you have always been wanting to happen? And COVID made it possible for the managers to think that it's important? What would be that one thing?

Nitin [00:28:05]  I think that's the bandwidth. OK. I see up a lot of bandwidth is now made available because you are left with no other option. But to trust that the work would be done any good come to you able to lose a lot of this bandwidth. I'm thinking about what are some of the things that you need to pause and think about which normally during your day to day interaction or day to day way you are working will never be able to focus. Right. And I think that from an organizational standpoint.  It is a very, very deep point, because if you're able to unlock the value out of this bandwidth in terms of being channelized in the right fashion. OK. One, the kind of value contribution you can expect from people. And more importantly, the overall manpower planning that is required, like in an organization to do a particular task. But the point of work will see a very different kind of mathematics.

Nitin [00:29:09] This also makes you realize that, okay, in the next three months, you know, I have a friend of mine in the U.S Have told me that anybody has moved this house from one place to another. You always pack his stuff in the boxes. And in case he doesn't unbox, a particular box is moving. That means that this is not something that meant for him. So similarly, think taking that as an analogy, if I think that if you have been doing a certain kind of task during the day and it is not required like that does for four first 10, 15, 20 days or maybe a month, probably you're just wasting your time and look at how that bandwidth available for doing much better work.

Ketan [00:29:55] Wow. Thank you. Yeah. Very powerful. Thank you.

Ketan [00:30:08] So what does this change? What do you want this change? This COVID has put a lot of things on us for the HR fraternity what are the three things that you want people to start thinking and talking and moving the in the direction, what's your point of view?

Nitin [00:30:25] I think I think just taking it forward. I think we have always been talking. When you're working with the sales organization, I probably mean you end up with the big world is one of the challenges that HR, as a professional has, is how do you and each and come get with these people, you know, because there is a person who is working for you, you know, in a small town of, say, this small city called Jabalpur who doesn't have the organizational skills or the colleagues with him he works. He's just taking the back end of the organization and trying and trying to sell or trying to, you know, do his work. So his identity is not to by the organization in that particular sense because he doesn't have the brand name of that organization or that office space, which is going through the people who belong and who are working for the same purpose.

So they're creating some kind of affiliation. And so I'm kind of amused by the organization has always been a challenge. And you end up talking with the salespeople, then you end up talking about the workers, people who are working with multiple organizations. How do you repurpose that? And they're working with the organization has been a challenge that we all have been talking about. Now, these were all a challenge from an organizational standpoint because these numbers were limited.

Nitin [00:31:46] I would talk about the entire organization working not from one single location or different offices. That's on the call. How you actually keep the purpose alive, the motivation, and the morale high in terms of being aligned to the organization and more importantly, how we end up communicating with them, you know. And I think if all their energy is from the H.R. standpoint, they have to focus on, is that how do they keep the work meaningful? How do they help? It will go up the stress that comes with working like in the same office. Right. And make sure that they are finding the purpose in the sense of belongingness that other guys are missing because we all are human beings. We need a physical get-together. We need to connect with each other. You know, very often people have said that, you know, today the kids are so good on social media. But then you have them in. But they will struggle. They don't know what to talk, you know, and deliver some of the changes that are happening in our society, given the use of technology and all that.

Nitin [00:32:54] Now, from an HR standpoint, by that is a new reality. How they use to making that softer aspect of being people-centric, being close to people, not by them. How do you make your communication is quite effective. But that's the most important thing. Are people even able to relate? You may have the addressing of 250 people at the same time, but you've got an opening for people to ask questions in, you know, in a public forum at that point of time, because it may lead to the chaos which may mean HR has to be just good at something like using online suite or tools for you to engage, ask questions and channelize those discussions in a different fashion to be when you start talking about coming to office, coming to office is not only about your work, you interact through long experience that helps you grow enough to be, if that is not available and is expected to work from a cabin. They do have no one else to look after. Look, look. To look up for talks. How do you really make sure that you're learning in terms of your experience, your wisdom, and all of that same type of training?

Nitin [00:34:08] Really that we talk about will undergo a massive shift, you know, because no longer you can have classroom trainings or workshops being conducted with ten complete products coming together and costing and to keep people really engaged. And boy, in a daylong workshop on our Internet or Zoom or any of those things is really not possible. So I think that we really glad. How do you make sure that the learning doesn't come when hope doesn't slow down? Why do you work in this new kind of work environment? And I think these are the two things I think are the biggest challenges that I see from an HR perspective we as H.R. people enable that for all the organization would be very important because that is some of the things that really worry people. This and all that requires training, communication and engaging important, you know. And how do we do it? Is really a challenge. But one has an answer. But we'll have to figure it out on time.

Ketan [00:35:35] But I think we do. If you're okay would like to have this conversation for the next three hours because, you know, and I'm sure a lot of people will get a lot of insight of what you're saying. But thank you so much for sharing that.

Ketan [00:35:56] Now, I'll just call out a quick question, which may be the next step for this one, and is the core theme of this entire episode and the conversation. So do you think this culture is becoming an e-culture as we go ahead? We spoke about Infras not being there. There is a lot of connecting which is happening virtually, the physical interface is going to reduce and will remain as it is for some time. Do you think the culture is moving toward e-culture, with that becoming a stronger terminology?

Nitin [00:36:37] Ketan, I would say that I have already been in an e-culture, society. And I think to give you an example, like the last 10 years that I have worked with the Tata global beverages, I think I used to connect very often through hangouts, video conferencing with my team out there in the USA, Australia everything right. Today when you talk about the workplace outside the workplace. I think you have more comfortable connecting with each other on Facebook, WhatsApp, and all right. So I think e-culture has somewhere really become a reality. OK, now why we're talking too much about it is because of the fact that they were forced only to use e-ways of connecting, and physical connect is something that has been prohibited.

Nitin [00:37:30] And, you know, as the psychic goes for human beings, you try to do more of that what you're being told not to do. And that rebellion, you know, the instinct of a human being is always very evident for all of us. So guess today when we talk about e-culture, I think, it has been there. But if you're forced to adopt e-culture in a far more structured fashion than you would have done in the past. So my guess is it is the new way of life. It has happened for anyone who's been working with multinationals. I think I know I've been talking to colleagues maybe for five years, but I've only met them twice in the span of five years. And we have a good rapport, we know everything about each other's family. What are they doing? How are the other kids and all of that stuff so connect is sorted.

Nitin [00:38:18] Rather, I would say that the shift from an e-culture to physical culture, there's always a kind of hesitation because once you're so comfortable talking to each other through a mobile or from a WhatsApp and all that, suddenly you get those people in front of each other. You don't know how to react. And there are studies which have been saying that kids today are very good to interact with each other on Facebook, WhatsApp, and all that. But the problem when you put them in front of each other, they don't know what you have to talk about. So I think e-culture is there and I think it's all about how integrated and meet the relevant stuff it felt with the. You know that it's a part of life and how you use it, you know, in your entire journey of attracting good people and all of that stuff, you know, because I just I could make sure that my kids actually spending more time going out rather than just being in front of a television or talking either through a Snapchat, that all of these things because the touch is lost.

Nitin [00:39:21] And also, I see e-culture as a way of supporting the culture of an organization. And yes, a lot of things need to be done. And I think from an HR standpoint, what becomes important is how do you channelize your interactions of the electronic way or data so that they're more meaningful because physical get-togethers are no longer to happen for months to come. So I think that's the way I talk about it in terms of how to really make it more meaningful and more productive. To see in terms of meeting the larger purpose of, you know, being aligned with the organization, being aligned with the purpose of the organization, you know that points out.

Ketan [00:40:41] That's. Good. Some great points there.

Senthil [00:40:47] One point to add here is when you said, kids are on, you know, finding it easier to communicate, to text, you know, even for an adult when you have to go for an apology, it's much easy to type I'm sorry. that's it. Did you do look the guy in the eye and realized you made a mistake and you that was somehow it was detrimental to your life and you will be looking at each other? Now, let me say I'm sorry. That's a little world of difference in between that and it's so yeah, it's a super point that you brought up Nitin!

Ketan [00:42:03] Nitin, we have five, kind of rapid-fire questions for you.

Ketan [00:42:05] And the first one is, if not an HR, what would you have become as a profession?

Nitin [00:42:16] I think, either I would have been a finance guy, but people say that I'm good as a sales guy. I believe I am a better finance guy.

Ketan [00:42:25] The second one, your favorite holiday destination before COVID?

Nitin [00:42:38] Barcelona, Spain

Ketan [00:42:40] Post-COVID, what would be your favorite holiday destination?

Nitin [00:42:45] I would still say it's Spain, in fact, that we had planned, that we were planning to be in Spain this October. Because me, my friends of friends and my cousin, I mean my sister and their friends, many of us had created a plan that this October we would be in Spain. Sort the plan is still on according to them. And we just have to figure out how to expand out whether we could go to Spain or not.

Ketan [00:43:21]  Okay. Now, this is going to be a tough one. Cooking, cleaning, mopping during COVID, which was the easiest thing to do?

Nitin [00:43:35] I'm very bad at all of that you know. I believe I can do good cooking. OK. Like it has support available. I would say that I have still take my shot at cooking. And, other things are tough.

Ketan [00:43:56] And the most important question. One thing that you would want to thank COVID for?

Nitin [00:44:15] I mean, the. That the entire air around being, clubbing, partying, socializing and all of that stuff, you know, going to malls, shopping. You know, all of this has come to a distant halt. And you see how these things are not so important. And what's more important is something else, you know? So I think that that's what I think that relates realized in the COVID times.

Senthil [00:44:49] Yeah, so that's it. You've said that. We can still live without all these shallow things, right?

Nitin [00:44:55] Yeah. It means absolutely everything is Okay. Today, you're going to a Pub. You were going for a night out. You're going to a movie. I mean, I don't think any of those things have happened in the last four months. Your life is still going on and you still have been you're able to focus things out for things. So I think that's one learning I've got. And the second most important thing is that pollution has come down drastically.

Senthil [00:45:57] You know, I think all in all COVID taught us to live the life of a minimalist. There's a 90-90 rule of minimalist, which is like you take everything that you haven't used in the past 90 days to appeal and ask the question, are you going to use this thing in the next 90 days? If the answer is no, you might as well dispose of it? We don't need that. That's some psychological minimalism COVID has taught us.

Nitin [00:46:36] That's one thing. I believe I can do it because I've got to do it. Something like that. Maybe that's the next area I need to work on. Yeah. Decluttering is good. I was actually searching, you know in the U.S.A. and all there are a lot of agencies that will come to your home, you know and do the decluttering. And I was thinking that if I have to do it myself, I could not do it.  Unfortunately, I couldn't find an agency with that business model. If someone opens that service, I would be the first one to go and get that done.

Senthil [00:48:56] Yep. Yep. Looks like something the Urban company can pick up soon.

Ketan [00:49:03] Good. Good. Guys, that was Nitin for you from Udaan. Thank you so much for your time. It was wonderful. I think the kind of information, thoughts, and ideas that are created by you, we will come back to you for a lot of insight. This was phenomenal. Senthil, Thank you so much for organizing and having me here. Thank you so much again Nitin for being here.

Ketan [00:49:29] Guys that's the end of the episode on behalf of CultureMonkey. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Thank you.

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